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I was listening to a debate on R4 on the way home last night about whether lack of manners is what's dragging us down into a yob culture (it's part of a series called "Is Britain going to the dogs?"!). It was very interesting in the end - much better than I expected - and one particular comment made me think. "Manners are a virtue"
Initially, I was very dubious about this statement - does having good manners make you a better person? Surely it's things like kindness and honesty which make you a better person. Inside things. Manners are more presentational.
Earlier in the discussion they'd talked about a distinction between manners and etiquette. They'd made it clear what etiquette was but not really (to me) what manners were and this idea of manners as a virtue suddenly made me see where the distinction lay. Etiquette is the presentational part - the pleases and thank-yous, the holding of the door which ease our days and make things nicer but are not necessarily virtuous in themselves. Manners on the other hand are tied in with respect. They talked about the shift towards respect which must be earned rather than being automatic. To me, the essence of manners is that you give everyone the opportunity to earn that respect. You never write someone off automatically. You give everyone a fair hearing. I think that is something which makes you a better person.
What do you think?
Initially, I was very dubious about this statement - does having good manners make you a better person? Surely it's things like kindness and honesty which make you a better person. Inside things. Manners are more presentational.
Earlier in the discussion they'd talked about a distinction between manners and etiquette. They'd made it clear what etiquette was but not really (to me) what manners were and this idea of manners as a virtue suddenly made me see where the distinction lay. Etiquette is the presentational part - the pleases and thank-yous, the holding of the door which ease our days and make things nicer but are not necessarily virtuous in themselves. Manners on the other hand are tied in with respect. They talked about the shift towards respect which must be earned rather than being automatic. To me, the essence of manners is that you give everyone the opportunity to earn that respect. You never write someone off automatically. You give everyone a fair hearing. I think that is something which makes you a better person.
What do you think?
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Date: May 9th, 2002 03:35 am (UTC)From:I miss R4, Alexander prefers XFM and I can't really concentrate on R4 with someone else around anyway.
Manners/etiquette, yes, what you say makes sense. Although I'd argue that while manners are about courtesy and respect, etiquette is about following set social and behavioural guidelines and don't necessarily relate to manners. (E.g. using the correct fork.)
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Date: May 9th, 2002 04:30 am (UTC)From:I think you're right about etiquette. Perhaps, thinking about it again, what I really need 3 levels, not two. Manners/respect at the top level as a virtue, courtesy/consideration in the middle, important but not quite as positive as manners and etiquette/social rules the lowest importance.