(no subject)

[tinyjo]

When famous people die, particularly, it seems, members of the royal family, there is a great deal made of it in the media. All too often we are told that the whole nation is mourning. I remember it in the case of the Queen Mother, Jill Dando and Diana in particular. It's actually something I find deeply alienating. I was pretty much untouched by all three of those deaths. I didn't know them and wasn't interested in them. That feels to me like a perfectly normal reaction, but there's a constant barrage of coverage surrounding these events telling me that it ought to mean something - that there is some kind of national coming together over these deaths that everyone else is a part of. It's even more pervasive than sports - I have similar but less strong feelings about things like the world cup and the Olympics. I think the reason that they're less strong there though is that I'm aware of being part of a larger group of people who's just not interested whereas I'm not concious of a vocal community of disinterest in these cases. So, is that community there but silent? The only way to find out is a poll :)

[Poll #1048051]

TBH, if I could figure it out clearly enough, I could write a very long rambling post about my lack of sense of any national belonging of any kind (and my inability to comprend it in others) but it's still to up in the air in my mind, so you're spared :)

Comments

[tinyjo.livejournal.com]

As for the coverage of her memorial service now, I don't think it's OTT

To me, having it headline the BBC news website and the Today programme is OTT. "In other news" maybe, but not headlining.

most English people wouldn't say they had a sense of belonging until the country was under some kind of fairly direct and credible threat

How does that fit in with the constant anti-immigration attitudes that get pushed in the popular press ("coming over here, taking our jobs...") or the intensly nationalistic attitude to sporting events?

[vinaigrettegirl.livejournal.com]

Ah, OK. We just have different measures of OTT-ness.

Re anti-immigration attitudes: that is an interesting thing, isn't it? Some people genuinely feel that there is a credible threat to Our Way Of Life (whatever that's supposed to mean to them) and some people can't define their sense of belonging in positive terms. Some people don't like any members of a given national group, be they some other colour, or Americans, or Belgians, or Jews. Going back to Pahl's study group on Sheppey, the sort of people one might feel to be targets of the popular press's anti-immigration ideas, I think we might find that the breakup of social interdependence amongst the less-wealthy working classes was affected by immigration, and that would be perceived as a threat. The social currency of unpaid and/or informal work is extremely important in "getting by" economically, and the in-migrant undoubtedly affects this. The press simplify it, as they do all things.

Sporting event "nationalism" isn't - I think, YMMV - about feeling that one belongs to the nation: not when England is represented by so many foreign players, at the end of the day. It may be about "belonging" to a larger group than one's immediate set of loyalties, but I wouldn't equate it with feeling that one belonged to the nation-state, with its concomitant laws and customs.

[tinyjo.livejournal.com]

not when England is represented by so many foreign players

Isn't that only the case in the club tournamnents? I was under the impression that there were rather stricter rules for national sides in international competitions? And it's observable even in things like Wimbledon coverage, where a completely disproportionate amount of coverage is devoted to British players because of a perception that the public will want to see them, rather than just wanting to see good tennis.

[fweebles.livejournal.com]

Only English citizens (or, through some complicated rules, children of English citizens who have some sort of backdoor loophole status) can play for England in most international sports.

[claire.livejournal.com]

I would disown my kid if it played sport for England. I mean if I had a kid. ;)