(no subject)

[tinyjo]

I'm feeling extremely low today. I don't really know why though. I was in tears last night trying to talk about attitudes to child free women in society with Alex (triggered by that obnoxious Observer article white_hart linked; they'll be getting a letter to the editor from me). It is something I find very frustrating but not normally something which would reduce me to tears, even when tipsy. And just now, I suddenly thought; what if this is PMT. What if I'm about to have a period for the first time in years? Just the thought is enough to make me want to cry on it's own. Still, I won a minor victory. I managed to decide that there was no point in making myself feel more depressed by going over to the snack machines and buying chocolate or a pack of carbohydrate-y sandwiches to cheer me up and then not losing any weight either. Instead, I'm treating myself to a crispbread from my desk drawer stash (!) and have just noticed a cup-a-soup in there which I might also have to supplement my breakfast (a banana).

I'll be able to get Zetti's review finished at lunchtime I think, which should give me a sense of achievement and then after work, there'll be a pub meetup, which always cheers me up. Chequers again? I'm not eating this time (I have cooking plans) so if anyone who is wants to go somewhere else, speak now and ye shall be heard. Well or anyone else of course, but I think the eaters probably get the final say - after all, anywhere we go is likely to serve drinkables :) Then I just have to get my Brownie planning done after dinner so that I can go to roleplaying tomorrow with a clear conscience.

It occurs to me that if I do have a period I have literally no stuff for it. And to be honest I have kind of deliberately not got round to buying anything in a kind of "bury head in sand about possibility" way. Perhaps I should go out at lunchtime and buy some panty-liners just in case. Also, I think I may be likely to post a lot today.

Comments

Of pubs and such like

[cloudhigh.livejournal.com]

Hi - for some reason I was just thinking of you this minute and dialled up LJ to see if you had written something today! The child-free thing is a complex issue, to say the least, and one which I've spent a lot of time considering.

Looks like I have a free spot in my diary this evening, so if you're Chequersing tonight I might be able to pop by? What's a good time?

ROFL

[t--m--i.livejournal.com]

One can have PMT without having periods. Trust me. (I feel a bit like that guy on Futurama: "Good news, everybody!...").

And given that on your LJ you periodically mention outbreaks of things that I would recognise from my own experience as being associated with hormonal fluctuations like outbreaks of listmaking and brain-dead lethargic days, well, maybe you *are* experiencing hormonally-related mood variations.

YMMV but I certainly do. It used to be a real problem until I overhauled my diet with that in mind (not just taking EPO though that helps), made sure to always take regular exercise and stopped trying to do more than I could sensibly fit in.

Yes, it's true: I used to be much crankier (hard to believe that such levels of crankiness could be reached by just one person but true nonetheless). And nary a period in sight.

sorry, that was probably after me

[cleanskies.livejournal.com]

ranting about Elle again, wasn't it? It's driving me nuts, though. I'm seeing her on Fri, I'll probably calm down a bit after that.

Re: sorry, that was probably after me

[tinyjo.livejournal.com]

I guess that was part of it, but it was also the very annoying article in the Observer which was basically saying "Gosh, everyone loves children these days, isn't it wonderful. Oh, and people who call themselves "child-free" are boring horrible gits who everyone hates" It was obviously written by someone who'd had children and thus moved from being a self-absorbed London journo who thinks everybody thinks like her to being a self-absorbed parent who thinks everyone thinks like her but it really pissed me off.

Re: Of pubs and such like

[tinyjo.livejournal.com]

I'll be there from 5:30 ish to 7ish I expect. Maybe see you there...

Re: Of pubs and such like

[cloudhigh.livejournal.com]

Cool! I'm trying to get some programming done (Oracle Forms 9i - it's a personal education update project for me!), so it should be a good relief from the perils of logic....

[dyddgu.livejournal.com]

I'm up for Chequers tonight, if that's ok.
Also, if you need any girl stuffs for emergency purposes, I have loads in my bag with me, and you're welcome to take them away, rather than spending money and have it not turn up.
I hope you're feeling a little better post-lunch *gentle hugs*

she wants a good slapping

[vinaigrettegirl.livejournal.com]

"Hair's breadth away?" No, she IS a smug parent. Definitely a self-obsessed fuckwit journo. Yes, I *know* I am loopy about my own kid, but I did have him at 43 and only bore about him on my LJ. I left my own church in tears after listening to a self-obsessed female priest go on and on about her own upcoming marriage and future kids in a sermon.

As for the UK being better for kids: ten years ago it was bloody awful for children, now it's slightly better, and the long-hours workforce culture has bugger all to do with children and much to do with preferred male patterns of work. Women-with-children-screwing-up-our-lives is an old, old song; and Jonathan Whosis may be a git, but he doesn't represent people who choose not to have children, AFAIC. He's just a git. And so was the author of the article. They'll go to hell in their own handcarts, I'm sure.

Pay them no mind.

Why so bothered, though, about a period? One every few years, [shrugs shoulders]: forgive me, you can tell me to push off, but what gets to you about it?

I looked it over

[cleanskies.livejournal.com]

It seemed like the usual pretentious lifestyler rambling that I'm perpetually astonished anyone gets paid for writing.

[white_hart]

I'm afraid I won't be coming tonight, as we missed the gym yesterday because I was stuck at work until half past six, so we're going tonight instead. Have fun, and I'll definitely be there next week (and probably very much wanting a drink, as I have my appraisal that afternoon!)

Re: I looked it over

[t--m--i.livejournal.com]

Quite right. Also the Absurder does seem to have a particular knack of having creepy articles. In the end I got fed up of being creeped out so regularly and stopped reading it for good.

Of course there are still annoying or creepy articles elsewhere, but I try to stay mellow thinking
a) world full of jerks, who knew? News at 11!
and
b) but at least if they're getting paid for this my taxes aren't keeping them in baked beans (something I started whenever I came across a Toby Young article - he went to the same college as me and was a lady's front bottom then, as he is now, but oh how pleasing it was when all his hair fell out :D )

[pennyroyalist.livejournal.com]

*hugs* i truly hope everything works out for you. if people want to have ignorant opinons, let them. i'm glad that you plan on sticking it to the editor *virtual high five :P*

also, thanks for working on my review, i can't wait to recieve it, don't worry about it if you get too busy. i'd hate to think of you wasting your lunch hour on me!

talk to you soon.

Swimming against the tide

[brixtonbrood.livejournal.com]

I read the Observer article with interest on Sunday and thought that the bulk of it was interesting and reasonably well balanced. I can hear the calls of "Well of course you think that, your situation is the same as the author's". Which is true, but the substance of the article is objective fact - Gordon Brown's revolution in parental leave, the SureStart initiative, later motherhood, the huge growth in the middle class parenting pound and the corresponding growth in businesses exploiting that.
Sure he's putting a personal spin on this stuff, but at least he's making it clear where he stands and not trying to pass his stance off as unbiassed (and where his interviewees are picked from the people he meets at his kids playground he makes that clear rather than pretending that they are fully representative (a frequent crime of that sort of journalism)).
However, when I got to the last bit I groaned "They'll get letters" partly because the level of abuse overpowered the rest of the article (he tried to lighten it up with the flip "anything this guy's for, I'm against" comment, but it was still a big failure of tone) but mostly because people would inevitably (IMO wrongly) interpret it as a blanket attack on the childless/childfree rather than this particular bloke.
In his defence, stuff I've read from the pro-childfree/anti kid movement can get very annoying. They always start with really good stuff like the appalling things people say to childfree women and the lack of flexible working for people caring for parents/spouses and end by moaning about perfectly reasonable stuff like parent and baby film screenings (at 10:30am for heaven's sake), family carriages (aka ghettos) on trains, and the demise of the Routemaster bus. I don't know whether they've been embittered by society's undoubted bad attitude or whether only someone who was a miserable git to start off with would go to the effort of starting this sort of campaign.

To change the subject - I recommend vitamin B6 - I've been on it for years and haven't knifed anybody

And, to reply to the rest of your post

[white_hart]

Sorry the article upset you - those last two paragraphs really annoyed me. I read the rest mostly out of professional interest in the improved government help for parents and families, and that was all sensible enough, but the end just took the biscuit! Interestingly, parents I've spoken to about this have mostly taken the view that the 'miserable git' was a criticism of the individual Jay Rayner was talking to rather than childfree people in general, but I certainly found the implication to be more specific, and can't help thinking that a more balanced article would have left this bit out all together if he couldn't find anyone who didn't adore children but was still a fun and interesting person *rolleyes*

Re the PMT, I know that when I run two packs of pills together I often seem to get PMT-like symptoms anyway. Which is damn annoying, given that I want neither the periods nor the hormone hell, nor in fact the fertility thing. At least having a period is better than the alternative...

word from the child free !

[cleanskies.livejournal.com]

I think mother-and-baby screenings are *such* a good idea. No longer having to be delicate about chatting about lastest films around new mums -- they can go see 'em. Plus, think of all that valuable culture being soaked up! Mother and Baby screening of Sin City, that's what we need. I'll suggest it to the Phoenix.

And family carriages are a lot better than the carriages full of twenty-year-old men smashed on overpriced lager.

I don't really see why either side has to get so polarised -- kids grizzle a lot less the more neat, comfy and convenient stuff there is for them, so everyone's a winner. Of course, I'm a big fan of the brightly coloured plastic aesthetic ...

Re: ROFL

[tinyjo.livejournal.com]

I'm still not convinced that my list making is hormone related, but there's plenty of other things that are. I might try EPO (although I have yet to actually ever stick to a dietary supplement). What other diet changes are recommended?

Re: I looked it over

[tinyjo.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Normally it doesn't wind me up so much - I was very surprised by how much it had got to me in this case.

On a slight aside, I reserve the right to throw eggs at any politician who says "We've done lots on womens issues" and starts talking about family friendly policies! Those are NOT womens issues, they're parents issues, alright!

[tinyjo.livejournal.com]

Oops - didn't reply to this at the time. Thanks a bunch :) It turned out I was OK and the hormones have reduced a little bit so hopefully the danger is passed...

Re: she wants a good slapping

[tinyjo.livejournal.com]

Why so bothered, though, about a period? One every few years, [shrugs shoulders]: forgive me, you can tell me to push off, but what gets to you about it?

I just found the whole experience of having periods distastful. Mine would be quite painful for the first 2 days and very heavy and I hated having to change my own nappy all the time, as it were. It was just an experience with nothing to recommend it that I'm glad to be shot of and it would just be very annoying if I had to start dealing with it again (not to mention you save a fortune on protection :) )

Re: Swimming against the tide

[tinyjo.livejournal.com]

It's true that things have got a lot better for parents and I don't object to that in general. The suggestion that letting children into pizza resturants was a sign of new child loving Britain was mostly what made it seem like someone very self absorbed to me - children have been eating in pizza resturants since I was a child, I assume that pre children he just wasn't eating in pizza resturants.

Why is the demise of the Routemaster bus parents fault? I've not heard of that one? Seriously, I don't object to any of the examples you give - in fact, I would say that mum/baby screenings and family carriages benefit both sides because it gets the tired and grumpy toddlers who are either grizzling or screeching or running around (not that they all do, but there's always one, I find) out of the way of those of us who really need to catch up on our sleep :) Its one of those debates where both sides tend to get represented by really annoying people who take it much further than rational adults should. In fact I can't think of any public debates that aren't like that. Ah well.

The one thing that *does* tick me off with family friendly policies as it's nearly always portrayed as "our good record on womens issues" or "appealing to our female customers" or whatever - nearly all family friendly policies are parents issues, not womens issues!

Anyway, rant over. None of the actual people with children I know are child-evangelical and most of you have rather cute children. And I do like them, as long as I can pass them back when it's nappy changing time, or whatever :)

Re: word from the child free !

[tinyjo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, stuff like that never bothered me - it's just when people suggest that I should be providing users for them (or that because I'm a woman they're for my benefit) that I get annoyed.

Re: ROFL

[t--m--i.livejournal.com]

Well, let's see:
there's the current news story about diet and PMS which sounds (based on my own experience - I do eat a lot of broccoli, almonds, calcium-fortified soya products, tahini & hummus these days) not implausible,

and

there was a very useful PMS workbook which I now think is now extremely out of print and hard to get hold of (sadly) but it talked about all the things that helped reduce symptoms: not just diet, but regular exercise, quantity and regularity of sleep, stress reduction and so on.

IIRC there is also evidence to suggest that consuming tryptophan-containing foods (turkey, milk, peanuts etc) can reduce irritability symptoms within an hour or so.

As I understand it, it's common to experience a regular cycle of various types of emotions and urges - it's just that PMS is more recognized (and obviously people tend to focus more on the time period when they are breaking things rather than the time period elsewhere in the month when they are particularly inspired and focussed, or the time period when they have the urge to get things done!). The "nesting urge" that women get just before they give birth is well known - but there are other helpful results of hormone levels (the "flipside" of PMS) which are less profound and so less recognized.

Re: Swimming against the tide

[brixtonbrood.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of unreasonability on this subject is a question of perception. People who are not interested in children (mostly men) literally don't see them unless they are completely unignorable, which is mostly when they are behaving badly in a public place. New and impending fathers are often shocked by how many young kids there are on the streets because they'd never noticed them before. Likewise childfree men tend to believe that all under tens scream all the time because these are the only ones they notice - they typically are overimpressed by their friends' totally normal kids when they happen not to scream all the time.
On the other side, parents of small kids rapidly gain the sanity-saving ability to screen out noisy children, and only react to noises which require them to take some action. Tiny in particular is a very noisy baby, but I don't register this because most of it's happy noises which needn't concern me - I constantly find myself taking him somewhere with lower noise levels and realising slightly too late that he's making disgusting raspberry blowing noises.
Routemasters were killed off for two reasons - they needed conductors, which made them expensive, and they are not accessible to wheelchairs and unfolded pushchairs. In practice, the wheelchair bays in modern buses are used far more often by pushchairs than by wheelchair users (the situation is similar for other disabled facilities, lifts, ramps, large doors, large ground floor loos etc). Jonathan Glancy wrote a deeply obnoxious article in the Guardian a long time ago which still makes me seeth when I think of it - he seems to want a London which is a combination between Hollywood Dickens and Logan's Run, full of fit, thin, childless young people - the aesthetic qualities of the Routemaster far outweighing its actual virtues for people transport.