tinyjo: (Default)
Emptied of expectation. Relax. ([personal profile] tinyjo) wrote2003-10-08 09:30 am

Divided by more than an ocean

So Californians have elected Arnie to run their state. Good luck to them. The report on the radio left me with the impression that his qualifications for this are slim to none but the fact that people liked the Terminator films means they're happy to vote for him.* Like the difference in our reactions to David Blaine, this illustrates the very different ways we view our celebrities over here. Can you imagine the mockery and derision if David Beckham stood as an MP? Americans seem to revere their celebrities. Here, we're all too aware of their shortcomings.

* I'm happy to be corrected on this point.

[identity profile] truecatachresis.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 02:26 am (UTC)(link)
Seb Coe stood as an MP, and got in. I think you overstate your case; were David Beckham to stand as MP, I think he'd have a very good chance of getting elected.

Boris Johnson MP

[identity profile] damiancugley.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 03:39 am (UTC)(link)
Countries where Boris Johnson can get elected should not throw stones... Arnold Schwarzenegger is smarter than the average airhead, for what it's worth.

Also, there is a tendency to trust non-politicians more than politicians (for example, Martin Bell and Glenda Jackson are expected to be more honest than the average carreer politican). Given that the electorate know nothing whatever about the other candidates is that they are politicians, maybe this helped tip the balance.

Re: Boris Johnson MP

[identity profile] tinyjo.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 06:08 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure Boris Johnson is particularly dumb - eccentric parhaps, particularly on TV, but not dumb (he did get an Oxford degree, I believe, although I've no idea what in). He is also not really a celebrity I don't think - he just goes on the news quiz because he's an odd-ball politician. I was surprised to learn that Arnie has an economics degree from someone further down - that's certainly something thats not been mentioned in much of the coverage.
jinty: (Bob)

[personal profile] jinty 2003-10-08 02:30 am (UTC)(link)
I object to your selection of UK-equivalent -- Beckham is always having the piss taken out of him for being thick. Substitute someone like Glenda Jackson (MP) or John Cleese or Michael Palin (the latter two having no political qualifications that I know of, and so being a fairer comparison) and it's a different story.

Not that I'm endorsing Arnie by this argument. I certainly sighed in a 'god, what do people get up to' sort of way when I heard the news this morning, though. But I think you have to appreciate that as they said on the Today program, despite their ditzy reputations it's not going to be the case that California overall as a state seriously believes that Arnie will 'terminate' their problems or anything.
zotz: (Default)

[personal profile] zotz 2003-10-08 03:00 am (UTC)(link)
Well, he's got a degree in economics, so he's not as unprepared as some. That ought to be helpful, a little. On the other hand, he said that over-regulation was a major problem, which is usually the political mantra of idiots (especially just after under-regulation has been seen to have wrecked their electricity supply . . . )

[identity profile] tinyjo.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 05:58 am (UTC)(link)
Ah, I didn't know that. The fact that he's said so little specific about what he would do made me very suspicious as to how much he knew what he was doing. Perhaps it's just that no-one is interested in his qualifications to govern other than his popularity.

[identity profile] coalescent.livejournal.com 2003-10-09 01:35 am (UTC)(link)
Is it a real degree, or an honorary one? :)
white_hart: (Default)

[personal profile] white_hart 2003-10-08 02:37 am (UTC)(link)
Well, they did elect an actor as President not so very long ago...

[identity profile] shepline.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 02:44 am (UTC)(link)
At least this particular actor can't become president.

I think what probably really lies at the heart of his election victory is that there were 100+ candidates. With that many it doesn't so much as split the vote as confuse the electorate. How can you make a decision with that many candidates? So they all plumped for the guy they knew and wasn't the current encumbant. Or is this over-simplistic?

[identity profile] soulsong.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 04:07 am (UTC)(link)
Maybe they'll change the rules for him? He's been a citizen for what, 20 years? I'm sure they can change whatever rule says non-natives can't run for pres! Especially if at some point he's their only chance of keeping out a democrat ;)

[identity profile] sparkymark.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 04:12 am (UTC)(link)
There's a Republican backed motion going through the houses at the moment to change that rule.

[identity profile] soulsong.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 04:19 am (UTC)(link)
uncanny ;)

[identity profile] celestialweasel.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 01:12 pm (UTC)(link)
This would require a constitutional amendment (Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5). This needs to be passed by a 2/3 majority in both houses, and ratified by 3/4 of the states (Article 5).
The constitution
asciident: (Default)

[personal profile] asciident 2003-10-08 03:31 am (UTC)(link)
Well, let's see...

Firstly, some do revere them to a point (particularly children), but we certainly have our entertainment in finding out all their shortcomings as well. Hence the tabloids.

Secondly, his "acceptability" is not quite as simplistic is that. This BBC article sums it up nicely: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3173166.stm

(I would likely not have voted for Arnold, but given that I'm not a citizen of California, it's not up to me. :))

[identity profile] tinyjo.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 06:10 am (UTC)(link)
He certainly doesn't seem to have actually said very much about what his actual policies would be though. Lots of soundbites and promises but not a lot about implementation. Which is pretty smart on his part, but I just have a suspicion that it wouldn't be so easy to get away with if he wasn't borrowing good will from his movie career.

Wibble

[identity profile] sparkymark.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 04:18 am (UTC)(link)
I think if Americaland had the same culture of oblivion drinking as the U.K then the "reaction" to David Blaine's public stunts in the U.S. would be the same here.

Isn't Governorship more like Mayor than MP? Where you could elect a man in a monkey suit (like Hartlepool) and the world would not end?

How many Predator cast members have yet to hold public office?

Tony Robinson for PM!

Re: Wibble

[identity profile] shepline.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 05:32 am (UTC)(link)
The thing is Tony Robinson would probably make quite a good PM, which is precisely why he wouldn't ever be it.

Although if he did, I think it should be under the name of his most famous character. Hmnn, Prime Minister Baldrick...

Re: Wibble

[identity profile] mzdt.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 05:43 am (UTC)(link)
or we could have him nominated to be a 'people's peer'. Lord Baldrick.

Lord Baldrick of Turnip, in fact.

Re: Wibble

[identity profile] tinyjo.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 06:01 am (UTC)(link)
It's a lot more important than Mayor, if I understand rightly. Perhaps closer to running one of the devolved assemblies.

Re: Wibble

[identity profile] snowking.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 09:30 am (UTC)(link)
It's rather more important than that, especially considering the size of California's economy.

Re: Wibble

[identity profile] entirelysonja.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 12:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure of the exact responsibilities of the devolved assemblies, but that sounds much closer to the mark than mayor.

In our federal system, the state governments have responsibility for everything that's not specifically a national government responsibility. For example, the federal government may lay out very general overall requirements for the schools, but the states have a great deal of latitude on how the schools are actually run. Schools receive their primary funding from taxes that are assessed on a local or state level (often property taxes), rather than from nationwide taxes.

Many important policies are determined on a state level, rather than a national level. Although the national government provides funding for social safety-net programs such as health care, food, and housing for the poor, the states have a high degree of control over how that money is spent. State governments are able to pass a wide variety of laws affecting residents of their state -- as an example, in some states, abortions are available with relatively few restrictions, while in others, there is a waiting period, or a spousal notification/consent requirement, or a parental notification/consent requirement (if underage). In some states, poor women can obtain abortions with public funds, while in others this is restricted or not available.

One of the key political distinctions in the U.S. is between people who believe that the national government should have more control over what happens in the states, vs. people who believe the states should retain more of their historical independence. A study of our constitutional convention provides an interesting perspective on how this has been an issue throughout our history.

Anyway, getting back to the California election, I think that, like the election of Jesse Ventura (a former professional wrestler) to the governorship in Minnesota a few years back, what this mainly indicates is that the public is heartily sick and tired of the way politics is run in this country. Someone with very little relevant experience thus seems like he can't possibly be any worse than the career politicians already in office.

I mean, this is a nation where George W. Bush could be elected president -- and I'm not convinced his prior experience was any more relevant than Arnold's.

Re: Wibble

[identity profile] applez.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 02:43 pm (UTC)(link)
What [livejournal.com profile] aquariumgirl said; the best way of understanding a Governor is somewhere between 'president of the state' and a provincial governor of ancient Rome, albeit with less overt corruption and dependency on the Emperor.

With an economy about the size of France's, and being the primary engine of economic growth in the US - the output of California is crucial.

Some examples of Governor's responsibilities and powers:
- Direct pardoning of death row criminals
- 'State of the state' speeches to review the condition of the state.
- Can call up federal reserve troops in case of emergency
- Can call on State-level police forces (as was used in Texas to seek and return the missing Democratic legislators)
- Propose, negotiate, sign, and in some cases veto state laws and proposed laws.

--> Also, depending on the state, local authorities may be very dependent upon state budget apportionment for their operations ... and may be expressly forbidden from doing things like 'council taxes' to independently fund themselves. Ah, federalism. ;-)

A bit more complicated than that for a start

[identity profile] applez.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 09:22 am (UTC)(link)
Firstly, read the articles I posted on my own LJ on this matter - the Bay Area was decidedly voting against the stream.

Secondly ...

As for Arnold himself, the problem has been that the only real record the public had to examine were his films - and whatever character lessons could be drawn from that. Stupid, but little different for professional politicians really (like the fascination over whether Schroder dyed his hair).

Californians are particularly comfortable equating public-image like with like ... so politicians, adult film stars, and celebrities are all on a fairly equal footing - as far as the average Joe voter is concerned.

Average Joe voters, btw, are none too bright either - hence the groundswell anger against Grey Davis, which whilst partially valid, a recall does little to solve the problems facing the state.

Lastly, Arnie does bring real management skills to the office - problem is, he's only ever really managed one product in the past, himself. It remains to be seen whether he can manage something as complex as the California bureaucratic system, and 'clean out Sacramento' given his entrance does not have an equal flood of new state legislators.

I expect upwards of a year of transition, as various parts of California bureaucracy undergo radical change or benign neglect, or both. After that, I expect Arnie to be completely eaten alive by the legislature, especially since Arnie may not understand the importance of alliance-making - in this regard, his advisors will be crucial. Lastly, I expect Warren Buffet and others to push up property taxes - frankly something long overdue; but if done too greatly too quickly, it'll put off the very Joe Average Voter who is so quick to rage.

Basically, California is probably fucked for the foreseeable future. Pardon my 'french.'

To the question of celebrity in US society

[identity profile] applez.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 09:26 am (UTC)(link)
To be fully honest, I don't think one can draw broad conclusions about the role and flexibility of celebrity across America as a whole.

Most of America would never seriously consider an actor for high political office, certainly not one of such management importance as a Governor. A legislator, otoh, would be one among many.

California is unusual in this regard.

As for Reagan making a run for the Presidency, he honestly could never have done it without his successful governorship of California. He timed it well too, so that repercussions of his state policies fell on other shoulders - reaping instead the best fruit for best imagery for his Presidential run.

Article on much of what you are commenting on...

[identity profile] applez.livejournal.com 2003-10-08 12:30 pm (UTC)(link)